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Bob Fischer's avatar

Thanks for your post, Rob. Meghan Barrett and I have a detailed reply to Eisemann et al. 1984 in the Quarterly Review of Biology. You can see it here:

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/737365

Short version, very little in that paper has stood the test of time and the particular passage you quote has many problems. I’d encourage you to reconsider including it!

EDIT: Had some more thoughts that Substack won’t let me paste into a comment, so I put them in a doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vhbCcV-EGhmm4c70BLp_6uY1jzOVzHIz84L1ePdMbvQ/edit?tab=t.0

Michael St. Jules's avatar

A few points on the (farmed) insect vs shrimp comparison:

1. My understanding is that 99%+ of farmed insects are larvae, not adults. There's less evidence for the sentience of larvae. See:

https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/yPDXXxdeK9cgCfLwj/short-research-summary-can-insects-feel-pain-a-review-of-the,

https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/E7xdBbxqPNLjhrnz6/if-adult-insects-matter-how-much-do-juveniles-matter

(There may be more recent evidence since these, though.)

2. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that even if we ignored impacts on the insect larvae and considered only the adults, there would be more marginally cost-effective farmed insect (or even lab insect) interventions than our most marginally cost-effective shrimp ones, because the numbers are so large. (I don't have a strong opinion, and so far it seems it could go either way.)

3. My impression is that SWP's Humane Slaughter Initiative is highly scalable (to possibly millions of dollars per year) and its cost-effectiveness in terms of the number of animals helped/$ is not too speculative. On the other hand, we don't (yet) have anything like that for farmed insects, and instead it's a mix of many interventions, where each only scales so much, it's difficult to generalize across targets even for the same kind of intervention, and each intervention tends to be more speculative in terms of cost-effectiveness. However, it's plausible this will change soon after further research/R&D, and we could, for example, just pay producers to adopt more humane insect farming and slaughter practices.

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